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Post by PETE on May 9, 2011 12:34:04 GMT
The Liverpool Motor Club
Track Day Event Aintree Saturday 28th May 2011 Volunteer Marshal’s are Required to Run This Event (Experience Not Essential) We Give a Generous Contribution Towards Travel Expenses, plus Provide a Free Lunch including Soft Drinks And all are Entered into a Free Marshal’s Draw. ( Hot Meals are also available in Golf Club House at your Expense ) Sign On Times Approx 7-30 to 8-15am. Finnish Approx 4-30 to 5-00pm Please note as the Circuit is not set up on a Permanent Basis, for those Marshals that do not have far to travel home, your help and assistance would be very much appreciated in dismantling the circuit equipment after the Finnish, such as Traffic Cones, Marker Boards Fire Extinguishers, Signage etc, Approx 1 Hour Any further information required, to Volunteer please send me a pm Or Email to rcwcom1@yahoo.co.uk Pete, Liverpool Motor Club Marshal’s Coordinator. [/center]
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Post by speedsport on May 18, 2011 22:27:33 GMT
As predicted, with the exception of the Single Seaters group, the track day was fully booked within 10 days. So, we are not accepting any further applications for the Novice, Intermediate or Experienced groups, as the reserve list is full too.
Looking at the machinery so far, it looks as though there is going to be quite a range of cars. We even have the ex Doug Niven/Jeff Wilson 5 litre VW Beetle booked in. I just hope that Dave Taylor, who has spent ages restoring it, manages to get it to the track day ok - he's been trying to be with us for 2 years now. Fingers crossed for a dry day too!
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Post by autospark on May 20, 2011 16:45:38 GMT
Hi John,
I am looking forward to this, should be a good day. As far as the weather is concerned, the long term forcasts are all over the place but it is looking like we may get rain at some point during the day. Having said that I find they usually get it miles out the day before, never mind a full week before. lol
Car prep tomorrow and then the mad rush on Friday evening to make sure everything is ready, with car on trailer and tyres/tools in the back of truck.
Seeya there.
Mike
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Post by autospark on May 29, 2011 10:09:28 GMT
Being in Group C It was very dissapointing to only get 10 mins track time in the morning. However the afternoons almost trouble free dry running made up for it. I can deffinately say it was a very a good day, Well organised with freindly people and some interesting Machinery. Driving standards were pretty good too and I think Group C was pretty well matched, which to some degree made it a bit boring at times because at least two sessions saw me chasing a black orange Porsche GT3 and a Blue Lotus Diesel, And apart from a very fast White EVO, nothing else was anywhere near. Some of the other sessions we were tooing and froing with some Clios, But in the last session I was last on track so had some catching up to, that was fun! I will post some piccies when I have them but here is one of my car at Anglsey last year. All in all a very good day. Mike
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Post by jplmotorsport on May 29, 2011 12:16:02 GMT
Well i thought the day was a complete joke to be honest,waiting around all morning...and ALOT of people i spoke to felt the same. Anyone would think it was a proper race circuit,,,its a mile long for god sake!!...yet took about an hour to clear some glass...i mean come on. Trackdays usually start around 9-9.30am...NOT 11am on track!...10 mins of track time before dinner is a farce..end of! So long to do noise tests,could have been done alot quicker/better...we all got out of our cars and chatted it was taking that long.!!! 3 of us paid for this (and hefty fuel bills,all in evo's) and all felt it was not good at all,hardly used any fuel because we just didnt get the track time....recovery was awful for such a small circuit. The afternoon was ok,but sooo long waiting in the queue to get out! We have been to this for the last 3-4 years...not again....oulton park=different league! Sorry but thats my and about 7 other peoples opinion.(probably alot more too) BTW...that pug above sounded awesome mate!
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Post by autospark on May 29, 2011 16:05:01 GMT
I have to admit I was being kind as I thought the morning was a joke!! However I think the proximity of the track, Ie in the middle of a City probably dictates a 10.00 start, although if I am wrong, and it could start at 9.00 then it should do! I was sure the 1st session started at 10.00 but our first outing was scuppered by the glass incident, which I agree took too long to clear. I also believe the second incident took way way way too long, I bet we were waiting 45 mins before they decided to have an early lunch. Which under the circumstances was the right decision. The afternoon was good though, for an event that was running in sessions everything went smoothly. The only complaint I have about the afternoon was that they could easily have squeezed a couple of more sessions in! They could have just said first 20 cars to the assembly area! What was a joke was the 4 or 5 cars that were circulating in group D at the end!! What a waste!!! I have been doing track days now for about seven years and find the open pitlane the best format. In fact Aintree is the only one I have been to that runs sessions. It was mentioned in an earlier post that open pit is not possible at Aintree, but I don't see why not. And the circuit could easily accommodate 30 cars. With so few cars on track there was rarely anything to chase. Anyway I still had a good day, And thanks for the compliment on my pug, Don't those carbs have a wonderfully retro sound about them.... I hope the organisers listen to some of the comments (constructive) made by people that attended and maybe use that to improve future days at Aintree. Mike
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Post by royodeboyo on May 29, 2011 18:19:49 GMT
Maybe a big round of applause for the driver of the black car who arrived with his rear screen held in with duct tape, only - surprise surprise - for it to blow out within a minute of getting on track! Track days should be to have fun & maybe improve driving skills - losing control and smashing into concrete posts doesnt do either! Probably annoys the wife too! If you want to 'race' get a licence & compete!
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Post by autospark on May 29, 2011 18:59:06 GMT
Hi Roy?,
The guy with the black car didn't originally have his rear screen held in with Duck tape, it actually shattered because he had affixed his big rear spoiler to it with Mirror pads.
As soon as he got any speed it had no give and shattered his screen!!!!
You will always get people going off and incidents on track days, its just we seem to have been unlucky to have been on the same track day as the two you mention!!.
Mike
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Post by speedsport on May 29, 2011 23:05:27 GMT
Well i thought the day was a complete joke to be honest,waiting around all morning...and ALOT of people i spoke to felt the same. Anyone would think it was a proper race circuit,,,its a mile long for god sake!!...yet took about an hour to clear some glass...i mean come on. Trackdays usually start around 9-9.30am...NOT 11am on track!...10 mins of track time before dinner is a farce..end of! So long to do noise tests,could have been done alot quicker/better...we all got out of our cars and chatted it was taking that long.!!! 3 of us paid for this (and hefty fuel bills,all in evo's) and all felt it was not good at all,hardly used any fuel because we just didnt get the track time....recovery was awful for such a small circuit. The afternoon was ok,but sooo long waiting in the queue to get out! We have been to this for the last 3-4 years...not again....oulton park=different league! Sorry but thats my and about 7 other peoples opinion.(probably alot more too) BTW...that pug above sounded awesome mate! Rather a lot of exaggeration there! Lets check the facts: Firstly, it didn't take an hour to clear the glass (dropped by a participant by the way, the organisers have no control over that. We stopped the session and lined up the cars on the circuit for 16 minutes whilst the glass was cleared. You try removing glass from an area 50m x 9m quicker than that! You would have been the first to complain if you had suffered punctures because the glass had not been cleared. The sessions started at 10 am, not 11 am as you claim, and you definitely got more than 10 minutes on track before lunch. The noise test did not cause any delay to you going out on track, you would merely have arrived at the assembly area a little quicker & waited there for your session to go out. Then the Golf that went off and demolished the perimeter fence (again, the organisers have no control over driver error). We had no option but to stop the session as the security of the site was compromised. We brought lunch forward so that the repairs could be effected without eating into your track time. During the day, just 3 cars were recovered, one so quickly that just one lap was lost behind the safety car, the other two were recovered at the end of the sessions so there was no stoppage there. You have to appreciate that the track day was being run by volunteers, members of the motor club, not by a large organisation with paid employees. We don't have the facilities of Oulton Park, Aintree is not a permanent venue. Everything that you saw, from signs, cones, marshals posts - literally everything has to be brought onto the venue and assembled in just 6 hours, by volunteers, many of whom take time off work the previous day, so you can play. The amount you pay reflects this. By all means go to Oulton Park but at this time of year you'll usually pay twice what we charge. We worked d**ned hard to put on the day for you. A bit more understanding and less exaggeration would help.
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Post by autospark on May 29, 2011 23:25:38 GMT
Hi John,
I accept and understand everything you say apart from one thing!
We definitely only had 10 mins before lunch!! ALL participants from C & D only got 1 session. Which even with understanding why, still makes it disappointing.
Judging by the popularity of this event and the speed with which it fills I can't see a bit of criticism having a bad effect but I think listening to regular track dayers may help improve the event.
Bear in mind I am not privy to the restrictions you have to work under.
Regards,
Mike
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Post by speedsport on May 29, 2011 23:50:46 GMT
Actually... It's John, but Hear what you say. I haven't got the session time log at present, so I'll have to wait until I have that to see exactly how many sessions we ran. I am the first to admit that this track day wasn't the best we have ever run. The delays weren't just a matter of towing in the occasional broken down car, both the morning incidents caused serious time losses that once they had happened meant that it was impossible to resume quickly. I will certainly take on board comments about the need for an earlier start - I'd certainly prefer a 9.00 to 9.30 start. I get very frustrated by having to deliver so much info at the drivers' briefing. Most there have heard it all before, but following a serious incident a couple of years ago, our insurers dictate what has to be covered in the briefing.
I'd love to have the resources of a circuit like Oulton. Loads of marshals, in-house sweeper trucks, a venue that is permanently set up & ready for use. If only! This was also the first time we have done a noise test at an Aintree TrackDay. Thanks to a complaining local, we have had to intrduce extra noise checks, though as indicated aboue, it didn't slow down the meeting. We are also having to be careful at the moment about start/finish times, though hopefully this issue will be resoved soon.
As for open pit lane, regrettably because of the problems seeing across the circuit, it is an absolute nighmare getting cars back out into a live session. Particularly when the driver of the car joining hesitates. Cars are hidden by all the trees that Aintree have planted inside Club Corner. The bottom line is that as cars leave the paddock right on the line of cars exiting the corner, there is immediate conflict. I can't see away round this - we certainly dont have the resources to construct a longer paddock exit, and we have no control over the vegetation.
We reduced the number of cars on track at a time from 25 to 20, a few years ago following several complaints from drivers that it was too crowded. If our current participants feel we could increase the number again, we'll certainly listen - though I suspect an equal number will ask us to stay at 20. Please don't think I'm shooting down everything you say. It's great that you are letting us know what you think, and we will certainly listen and review constructive criticism.
And,by the way, the Pug did sound great!
Many thanks John H
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Post by royodeboyo on May 30, 2011 6:04:26 GMT
Thanks for the update on the window situation - it was a pane(sic) - I was clearly mis-informed by other drivers in the golf-club area! I concour with John's comments - public & driver safety is paramount!
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Post by jplmotorsport on May 30, 2011 7:35:02 GMT
Well i thought the day was a complete joke to be honest,waiting around all morning...and ALOT of people i spoke to felt the same. Anyone would think it was a proper race circuit,,,its a mile long for god sake!!...yet took about an hour to clear some glass...i mean come on. Trackdays usually start around 9-9.30am...NOT 11am on track!...10 mins of track time before dinner is a farce..end of! So long to do noise tests,could have been done alot quicker/better...we all got out of our cars and chatted it was taking that long.!!! 3 of us paid for this (and hefty fuel bills,all in evo's) and all felt it was not good at all,hardly used any fuel because we just didnt get the track time....recovery was awful for such a small circuit. The afternoon was ok,but sooo long waiting in the queue to get out! We have been to this for the last 3-4 years...not again....oulton park=different league! Sorry but thats my and about 7 other peoples opinion.(probably alot more too) BTW...that pug above sounded awesome mate! Rather a lot of exaggeration there! Lets check the facts: Firstly, it didn't take an hour to clear the glass (dropped by a participant by the way, the organisers have no control over that. We stopped the session and lined up the cars on the circuit for 16 minutes whilst the glass was cleared. You try removing glass from an area 50m x 9m quicker than that! You would have been the first to complain if you had suffered punctures because the glass had not been cleared. The sessions started at 10 am, not 11 am as you claim, and you definitely got more than 10 minutes on track before lunch. The noise test did not cause any delay to you going out on track, you would merely have arrived at the assembly area a little quicker & waited there for your session to go out. Then the Golf that went off and demolished the perimeter fence (again, the organisers have no control over driver error). We had no option but to stop the session as the security of the site was compromised. We brought lunch forward so that the repairs could be effected without eating into your track time. During the day, just 3 cars were recovered, one so quickly that just one lap was lost behind the safety car, the other two were recovered at the end of the sessions so there was no stoppage there. You have to appreciate that the track day was being run by volunteers, members of the motor club, not by a large organisation with paid employees. We don't have the facilities of Oulton Park, Aintree is not a permanent venue. Everything that you saw, from signs, cones, marshals posts - literally everything has to be brought onto the venue and assembled in just 6 hours, by volunteers, many of whom take time off work the previous day, so you can play. The amount you pay reflects this. By all means go to Oulton Park but at this time of year you'll usually pay twice what we charge. We worked d**ned hard to put on the day for you. A bit more understanding and less exaggeration would help. Hi john...we DID only get 10 mins before lunch.(group c) I understand what you are saying...not desputing at all that your team worked very hard to put the day on...but understand "our" frustration please. If it was my opinion only then i might think im being a bit harsh or out of order,but alot of people were saying..."when is it going to start".."whats going on" etc etc....my dad who was in the queue waiting to go out actually turned around and came back to the pits..totally fed up. You say oulton is twice the price...yes,totally correct...but we all did 30-40 miles total track miles on saturday ....at oulton its 110 miles +....so 2/3 times more....the track time at aintree is going down and down every year...we all said that. Yes i agree,you cant help anyone going off,and its our responsability totally..but its how you deal with it...as in your briefing you said it exceeds the level of trackday criteria and the recovery is spot on..within a minute....yet a hell of a lot of people were totally bemused on how long it took to recover someone and get the day going again,for such a small circuit. I have to say that in your defence,when you called out the groups to line up..i took a while for people to get into the area (but only because they knew there would be a long wait) Hopefully some comments will be taken on board....im speaking for about 7-10 people here (that came over to us for a chat during the day)....as the circuit is a good little blast out in the car....to be fair.
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Post by autospark on May 30, 2011 7:48:32 GMT
Hi John,
I thought I was wrong with your name so I looked back through your posts and realised who you were. ;D
The session log will back up what I say about the morning session for C & D. But as I said although it was disappointing, it is understandable. Most none club members (me included) probably don't realise the marshalls are all volunteers. or how long some things take to clear up. it is easy to criticise when you don't have the facts.
The briefing was fine, but one thing that could have been mentioned was this forum as it would have been interesting and useful for yourselves to hear all views, good and bad, about the day. Sometimes in life, people only ever complain when they think you get it wrong and say nothing when they think you get it right!
I read about the marshall that was injured a couple of years ago on this forum, A rare occurrence but not good when it happens. no one posted whether or not he was OK afterwards.
I think most people do understand that Aintree is different to most other circuits and the event is run by enthusiasts. And to be fair for the resources available to you, you don't do a bad job compared with the full time circuits. Noise testing did not cause any issues IMHO.
I did not realise how difficult it is to feed cars back on circuit safely during a live session, So for that reason I couldn't see why you can't run OPL, But I see what you mean there now and have to agree that driver and public safety and well being are paramount.
To finish, at lunchtime on Saturday I was beginning to wonder if I should have bothered! But by the end of the day due to very little stoppages and 4 good sessions I was very pleased with the day and thoroughly enjoyed myself. I would most definitely come again.
Mike
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Post by royodeboyo on May 30, 2011 9:15:33 GMT
Why not come along to our next Sprint (June 25) & help as a Marshall - we start setting up at 07.00 and you'll probably get away around 18.30. You'd be with someone experienced so don't worry if you haven't marshalled before! You'll need waterproofs and/or suncream! It'll give you the opportunity to 'see the other side of things'!
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