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Post by ian on Sept 25, 2011 14:40:13 GMT
This year has been a non starter for me but I will be competeing 2012 in Roadgoing production 1B, probably been asked before but can someone clarifythe following please:
Suspension
11.7.1. Suspension configuration must remain standard.
Does this just mean the mounting points and suspension type? Can i uprate shocks, springs bushes etc. Are 'NON' adjustable solid strut top mounts allowed as an upgrade for rubber?
Chassis
11.3. Manufacturers original chassis structure and
specification of construction, dimensions and material.
Roll cages must not accept or assist any direct
suspension loads.
Can I add front and rear strutt braces and uprate Anti Roll bars as these do not change the chassis structure or specification of construction?
i'm a bit unsure of what i can and can't do for 2012 and your help would be appreciated.
Ian
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Post by Ron on Sept 26, 2011 20:39:00 GMT
The suspension rules for 2012 will be almost the same as those that the championship has been using for the last two years in the north the only change is that any type of spherical or similar joints will no longer be allowed. The full changes are listed in the rule changes sent out with the April edition of the new MSA magazine I have attached a PDF copy below Attachments:
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Post by ian on Sept 27, 2011 8:21:44 GMT
Hi Ron and thanks....................just so i am interpreting things correct......'suspension can be any make and have adjustable platform as long as it mounts in the same method and same fixing points as originally manufactured'.........ok thats sorted.
Now the aftermarket suspension i am possibly buying has a SOLID NON ADJUSTABLE top mount that locates in the original position and fixes in the same way as original BUT has bearing inserted and not a Rubber/steel collar type..........is this eligible for 2012?
Also What about the front and rear Strut braces? Is it also ok as there is no mention of chassis in the update?
I made the mistake of buying stuff a few years ago and ending up in a class i could not compete with, so understandably i dont want to waist money or have De Ja Vu
Regards
Ian
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Post by Ron on Sept 27, 2011 9:02:47 GMT
Hi Ron and thanks....................just so i am interpreting things correct......'suspension can be any make and have adjustable platform as long as it mounts in the same method and same fixing points as originally manufactured'.........ok thats sorted. Now the aftermarket suspension i am possibly buying has a SOLID NON ADJUSTABLE top mount that locates in the original position and fixes in the same way as original BUT has bearing inserted and not a Rubber/steel collar type..........is this eligible for 2012? Also What about the front and rear Strut braces? Is it also ok as there is no mention of chassis in the update? I made the mistake of buying stuff a few years ago and ending up in a class i could not compete with, so understandably i don't want to waist money or have De Ja Vu Regards Ian (new regulation for 2012) 11.7.6. For Road-going Series Production Cars bushes may be changed for similar polymer materials but not to spherical or similar metal joints. Which basically means you cannot have any form of solid joint, only bushes So the aftermarket you mention is not allowed. The only exception is if that type was originally fitted by the manufacturer As for roll cages I suggest seeing a scrutineer. |
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Post by ian on Sept 27, 2011 10:52:25 GMT
It's not a 'Roll Cage' as i don't intend fitting one but Suspension Strut Braces...........the only reference i can find to Chassis is:
Chassis
11.3. Manufacturers original chassis structure and
specification of construction, dimensions and material.
Roll cages must not accept or assist any direct
suspension loads.
There is no mention of 'bolt on suspension braces' i could take it one of 2 ways but want to comply from day 1 with no issues lol
Not sure if it's me being thick
Ian
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Post by Ron on Sept 27, 2011 21:46:25 GMT
I will try to find out about strut braces for you because there is no mention of them in the new regs.
I personally think that if they were not in the original configuration then they are not allowed
We did allow removable strut braces the in the Northern/Midland clarifications.
I will let you know after I have been to Anglesey for the Longton Sprint and had a chat with the scrutineers.
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Post by ian on Sept 28, 2011 8:46:59 GMT
Thanks Ron, some 'Roadgoing' cars come with them some don't........surely it would not be fair for one model to be allowed to compete withthem and others not allowed in the same class.?
For example Class 1c a subaru impreza sti has a strutt brace standard, an Evo has one Standard yet a Seat Leon Cupra doesn't. If one is allowed in a Class then maybe all should be allowed?
All i want is a level playing field and not a competition about who can buy the best/most expensive car lol
Ian
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Post by sprintman on Sept 28, 2011 8:58:44 GMT
Thanks Ron, some 'Roadgoing' cars come with them some don't........surely it would not be fair for one model to be allowed to compete withthem and others not allowed in the same class.? For example Class 1c a subaru impreza sti has a strutt brace standard, an Evo has one Standard yet a Seat Leon Cupra doesn't. If one is allowed in a Class then maybe all should be allowed? All i want is a level playing field and not a competition about who can buy the best/most expensive car lol Ian Ian, the "level playing field" is provided by the MSA Regulations. The fact that one manufacturer fits a strut brace and another doesn't is an irrelevance. The rules are the rules and if there are any badly worded sections or contradictions then these should be pointed out to the MSA sub-committee for their attention.  |
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Post by ian on Sept 28, 2011 17:26:02 GMT
Hi Steve, the problem is it doesn't mention anything about 'non permanently fixed strut braces' only about roll cages attatcing to strut towers etc.
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Post by ian on Oct 5, 2011 17:02:27 GMT
I will try to find out about strut braces for you because there is no mention of them in the new regs. I personally think that if they were not in the original configuration then they are not allowed We did allow removable strut braces the in the Northern/Midland clarifications. I will let you know after I have been to Anglesey for the Longton Sprint and had a chat with the scrutineers. Did you get any answers Ron? |
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Post by Ron on Oct 5, 2011 18:30:27 GMT
Not yet but I am sure that strut braces will not be allowed unless they are fitted as standard by the manufacurer.
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Post by ian on Oct 5, 2011 19:39:54 GMT
Not yet but I am sure that strut braces will not be allowed unless they are fitted as standard by the manufacurer. Not too worried to be honest Ron as they are easily removed in a couple of minutes, just knowing for certain would have saved me wasting the scruitineers time in having to take the car back to them if it's turned away. All other purchases will conform so bring on the preparation lol |
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Post by ian on Nov 17, 2011 15:41:47 GMT
Did you get any 'Final Verdict' on the Strut braces?
Also a new one:
20th July 2010 Speed Committee meeting the following points were for consultation:
11.4.4. Wheel arch extensions and bonnet
louvres are permitted provided the silhouette
continues to comply with 11.4.1 above.
11.4.5. Aerodynamic devices may be fitted
provided the silhouette continues to comply
with 11.4.1 above.
I see from the a previous post that these have now been removed and it is in force from 2012, I'm thinking of inserting a 'louvre' above my air box in my 'Roadgoing Series Production' car and before i do i would like clarification.
New wording:
12.5.1. Silhouette of the: vehicle as seen In side elevation must remain unaltered, With the exception of engine bonnet/cover and boot lid/rear deck.
Ian
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Post by sprintman on Nov 18, 2011 9:52:03 GMT
I see from the a previous post that these have now been removed and it is in force from 2012, I'm thinking of inserting a 'louvre' above my air box in my 'Roadgoing Series Production' car and before i do i would like clarification. Ian The MSA are the people to give you the clarification which you seek. LMC would only be able to give an opinion whilst the MSA are the arbiters of what is and isn't legal.  |
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Post by Ron on Nov 18, 2011 10:24:19 GMT
The 2012 Blue Book will be out next month and you will receive it with your new licence.
The North/Midland speed clarifications will clarify that OEM strut braces are not permitted.
I am hoping to have the championship regs ready by the end of November so has to send them with membership renewals but I still have a problem with a few of the rounds that are not able to confirm them at the moment.
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